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Vyse writes: "The responses from Republicans were horrifying, if not entirely surprising."

Trump supporters at a campaign rally. (photo: AP)
Trump supporters at a campaign rally. (photo: AP)


Trump Could Convince Republicans to Suspend American Democracy

By Graham Vyse, New Republic

10 August 17

hat’s the suggestion of new polling published in The Washington Post on Thursday by Yeshiva University professor Ariel Malka and University of Pennsylvania professor Yphtach Lelkes. In their survey, the academics asked voters, “If Donald Trump were to say that the 2020 presidential election should be postponed until the country can make sure that only eligible American citizens can vote, would you support or oppose postponing the election?” They then asked how voters would feel if Trump and Republicans in Congress were to make this argument.

The responses from Republicans were horrifying, if not entirely surprising: “52 percent said that they would support postponing the 2020 election, and 56 percent said they would do so if both Trump and Republicans in Congress were behind this.” Perhaps this is because, as the poll also found, nearly half of GOP voters believe Trump won the popular vote against Hillary Clinton last year (he did not) and strong majorities embrace his false claims about widespread vote fraud.

If Republican leaders ever proposed such a delay, Malka and Lelkes note, “there would be a torrent of opposition, which would most likely include prominent Republicans. Financial markets would presumably react negatively to the potential for political instability. And this is to say nothing of the various legal and constitutional complications that would immediately become clear.” Yet, they wrote, “it is also conceivable that a high-stakes and polarized debate would do the exact opposite.” Partisanship and political tribalism could cause even more Republicans to back a delay.

This is just a hypothetical, of course. A delay would be Trump’s most overt undermining of American democracy as president. But given how many democratic norms he’s already discarded, it’s not entirely outside the realm of possibility.


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-35 # Rodion Raskolnikov 2017-08-10 16:00
It seems like every year or so some jackass jumps up and makes the prediction that this or that president will "suspend democracy" or cancel the next elections. This time there are two such jackasses: Rriel Malka and Yphtach LelkesThe chances of this are nearly zero.

But there is a real suspension of democracy going on right now and these same jackasses don't seem to see it. They are part of the suspension. The "Deep State" or members of the intelligence/wa r agencies such as CIA, NSA, FBI, Pentagon, the major media like the NYT, Wapo, others, and influential people in corporations and think tanks have decided to reject the results of the 2016 election and push Trump out of office. They are using soft means like propaganda and the moulding of public opinion right now, but the war being wages against Trump is getting more and more vicious.

The jackbooted GESTAPO raided a Trump campaign manager's house in the pre-dawn hours this week.

I certainly don't like Trump. He is a terrible president. But even with all its flaws, he won the election. Democracy means a peaceful transition of power, among other things. US elections are onliy about 30% democratic but those were the rules when Trump and Clinton won. Had Hillary received the majority of electoral college votes, she'd be president and there would be no "soft coup."

The coup is soft now, but it will get hard. These are the same agencies that took out JFK is a hard coup and Nixon in a tough coup.
 
 
+4 # sbessho 2017-08-10 22:28
Uh oh, here comes the "deep state." Tinfoil hat a little tight?
 
 
-5 # dbrize 2017-08-11 10:02
Quoting sbessho:
Uh oh, here comes the "deep state." Tinfoil hat a little tight?


You are hereby nominated for the current "Close My Eyes, See no Evil Award" of the month.

Sleepwalking past the MIC/CIA/Global Corporate/Banki ng machinations, whistling happy tunes all the while.
 
 
+6 # REDPILLED 2017-08-11 10:25
Please read:

The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government by David Talbot

The Deep State: The Fall of the Constitution and the Rise of a Shadow Government by Mike Lofgren

The CIA As Organized Crime by Douglas Valentine
 
 
0 # Rodion Raskolnikov 2017-08-12 06:45
RED -- yes, all good. I've read them. The problem is that most americans don't read anything. They get news and information from TV news or sometimes a newspaper -- all of these are part of the Deep State so they don't say much about it.
 
 
+2 # librarian1984 2017-08-12 08:24
Your ignorance of something does not make it go away.

Chomsky, Naomi Klein, Glenn Greenwald, Robert Parry, Sy Hersh et al, respected journalists, talk about the DS.

Whatever you call it there is a cabal of the very rich who pull the strings of our politicians, and there is a Deep State that operates without our knowledge or consent. We KNOW there is a black budget that funds extra-democrati c operations. We KNOW there are CIA and NSA programs uncovered years after they've been in operation. We akNOW the heads of these organizations have lied to Congress about their activities yet continue to be guests in msm propaganda broadcasts.

So let honest journalists, and history, and current events, inform you -- and stop thinking that insults are a suitable substitute for discussion.

If you have a different opinion, kindly present your evidence rather than immediately taking cover behind insults and smears.

I take it you were a Hillary supporter? That is their m.o.
 
 
0 # Michaeljohn 2017-08-13 10:00
Quoting librarian1984:
Your ignorance of something does not make it go away.

Chomsky, Naomi Klein, Glenn Greenwald, Robert Parry, Sy Hersh et al, respected journalists, talk about the DS.

Whatever you call it there is a cabal of the very rich who pull the strings of our politicians, and there is a Deep State that operates without our knowledge or consent. We KNOW there is a black budget that funds extra-democratic operations. We KNOW there are CIA and NSA programs uncovered years after they've been in operation. We akNOW the heads of these organizations have lied to Congress about their activities yet continue to be guests in msm propaganda broadcasts.

So let honest journalists, and history, and current events, inform you -- and stop thinking that insults are a suitable substitute for discussion.

If you have a different opinion, kindly present your evidence rather than immediately taking cover behind insults and smears.

I take it you were a Hillary supporter? That is their m.o.


The DEEP STATE is, in fact, the cabal of the very rich and has been entrenched in the world since the Rothschild dynasty was established. The birth of the USA, free from the dynastic complications of the rest of the world was the perfect place from which to build a new world order; CIA and NSA merely act at their bidding.
 
 
-1 # Caliban 2017-08-13 21:50
"The Rothschild dynasty"!? -- It appears that these Deep Staters are an extension of the Nazi's of the 30s & 40s.

The "original" historical Hitlerites also loved to bash "the Rothschild dynasty" for anti-semitic propaganda purposes.
 
 
-3 # CL38 2017-08-10 23:13
Good grief. Clinton & DNC rigged an election and participated in election theft (see investigation of DNC). Clinton lost the election due to her own machinations and failures.
 
 
-1 # ericlipps 2017-08-11 11:27
Quoting CL38:
Good grief. Clinton & DNC rigged an election and participated in election theft (see investigation of DNC). Clinton lost the election due to her own machinations and failures.

How many times must people like you be reminded that CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE? As forher having "rigged an election and participated in election theft," I presume you mean that the primaries were rigged, and that the proof is that Bernie Sanders didn't win as, in your view, he was supposed to. But even Bernie doesn't believe that.
 
 
+3 # CL38 2017-08-12 01:05
How many times must people like you be reminded that Clinton was the most distrusted , disrespected candidate (other than Trump) to run for President, who colluded with the DNC to shut Sanders out, engaging in election rigging and theft. See "In Its Defense Against Fraud Suit From Bernie Supporters, the DNC Just Dug Itself Into an Epic Hole": nthesetimes.com/article/20105/in-its-defense-against-fraud-suit-from-bernie-supporters-the-dnc-just-dug-i

Also, "WAS THE ELECTION RIGGED AGAINST BERNIE SANDERS?"

"A class action lawsuit alleging the Democratic National Committee worked in conjunction with Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign to keep Bernie Sanders out of the White House has been raging on in the courtrooms for months on end–and yet, most people have no idea of its existence, in large part thanks to the mainstream media's total lack of coverage."

You continually deny this and seem to pretend as though you've never heard of the lawsuit, eric lipps.
 
 
+4 # librarian1984 2017-08-12 08:30
How many times do YOU need to be reminded that she should have won by twenty points? And that her popular vote win came from Sanders supporters? Yet YOU continue to spout the same nonsense, post after post.

The proof Sanders won is not our OPINION, not our DESIRE, but EVIDENCE. The exit polls -- which were cancelled, btw. No red flags? -- and the EJUSA report, which you refuse to address.

Your posts are dishonest, eric, and you rarely respond to anyone else. Why do you waste our time?
 
 
-2 # ericlipps 2017-08-11 11:24
No one would ever guess from your comments about Trump and his opponents that you really dislike him.

Oh, and about democracy: whatever he and his worshippers may claim, he won the presidency in spite of the voters, not because of them.
 
 
+3 # librarian1984 2017-08-12 08:37
And no one would ever guess from your disingenuous response that you're an intelligent being capable of nuanced thinking.

To demand honest journalism, to require evidence, to respect our democratic institutions IS NOT A DEFENSE OF TRUMP and for you and others here to continue to conflate the two is just another example of a dysfunctional left in this country -- and the main argument to elevate progressive leaders and policies.

The establishment left and the msm have abandoned principle and mission, and are not to be trusted. We need people in government and journalism, not necessarily who are on our side, but who are honest. And right now that word cannot be applied to the GOP OR the Democrat establishment .. or most journalists.

The US, if it were a person, would be very sick indeed. Progressives have the cure, but the patient is in denial .. YOU, eric, being a prime example.

With allies like you how will the left ever defeat the right?
 
 
+5 # Skeeziks 2017-08-12 09:35
..."But even with all its flaws, he won the election. Democracy means a peaceful transition of power, among other things."...

Yes he did win the election, but with the help of Gerrymandering and the Electoral College. Those means are not and has not been a true way of democracy as it should be. And I believe how our founders meant it to be. Both should be scratched out of our electoral policy.
 
 
+50 # CL38 2017-08-10 17:44
Isn't this exactly what Republican legislation to suppress the vote, enhance corporate control and do away with health insurance for millions & raise insurance rates for others is designed to do--chip away at all rights and benefits of Democracy for people?

Suspending American 'Democracy' (what we have left of Democracy) would take one more giant step toward their intended coup d'état. And permanent power that they can control at a whim.
 
 
+27 # grandlakeguy 2017-08-10 21:52
Does it really make a difference since our elections are fake anyway.
There is no such thing as voter fraud, what has happened is election theft and the Republicans have been getting away with it for years!
When will the spineless Democratic leadership get some courage and expose this theft of our democracy?
 
 
+5 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2017-08-11 10:28
Quoting grandlakeguy:
[W]hat has happened is election theft and the Republicans have been getting away with it for years!
When will the spineless Democratic leadership get some courage and expose this theft of our democracy?
They won't because they are part of it.

The Dem leadership abandoned the People when they sanctioned Superdelegates as a method of controlling who would run for President. Rather than face the fact that McGovern did not champion policies desired by the People, they devised a scheme to override any primary results they didn't like. So when it happened again in 2016, they had their "fix" in.

They've quietly bought into/been bought by the massive money interests and have no intention of helping America become a true Democratic Republic.

For those of you who see "Deep State" and think "Tin Foil Hat", perhaps you might reconsider your denigration of those who use the term if you were to rethink "Deep State" as "the handful of extraordinarily rich and powerful people in our country".
 
 
+1 # CL38 2017-08-12 01:07
Democrats also got away with with election theft in '16.
 
 
+6 # chapdrum 2017-08-12 11:16
Thom Hartmann did a show a few months back wherein he asserts that not since Eisenhower have the Republicans legitimately won a presidential election.
 
 
+14 # JayaVII 2017-08-10 23:14
What American democracy? Suspend what democracy? Suspend American what?

The headline exemplifies the classic philosophical fallacy of begging the question ... it assumes without arguing the point that we have something in place called "democracy." People whose IQs exceed their hat size know that we have the facade of democracy, but not the substance. The sad thing is not so much that Republicans are okay with forgoing electoral theatrics, but rather the fact that if elections were indeed called off, nothing important would change, because the system is sealed tight and unalterable.

But elections will not be called off, as the money that changes hands during them constitutes an important economic activity. Elections in the 21st century are potlatches, festivals of orgiastic spending. Frankly, I'm not sure that I would miss them if they went away. They are at this point a substitute for politics, not an expression of them.
 
 
+15 # futhark 2017-08-11 01:45
Any executive order to suspend the 2020 elections would be in direct violation of the Constitution and any federal court would block implementation. While it is horrifying to read that such a large portion of the American electorate may favor such a suspension or postponement,th e chances of that actually happening are slim to nil.
 
 
+6 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2017-08-11 10:49
Quoting futhark:
Any executive order to suspend the 2020 elections would be in direct violation of the Constitution and any federal court would block implementation. While it is horrifying to read that such a large portion of the American electorate may favor such a suspension or postponement,the chances of that actually happening are slim to nil.
That's what politically astute Germans thought in the 1930s.

Never, never, never underestimate the damage a demagogue whose supporters are of the lynch mob variety can do.
 
 
+7 # librarian1984 2017-08-12 09:01
But we COULD defeat any such action if we had honest politicians using authentic ideas to fight this kind of tyranny.

Liberal politicians have been such hypocrites, and are so despised by most Americans, that people don't even listen to them. They only hear the shrill whining.

Those who say we can't afford infighting because we have to attack Trump 24/7, that is a big problem. It's not a coincidence that our politicians AREN'T fighting, as usual. Which Democrat is calling for an investigation into our elections? NOT ONE.

That's why it's essential we purge neoliberals from the party .. because we can't even debate with Trump before then. Neoliberals have no interest in protecting the citizens or the vote. They want war and war profiteering, and they don't care how they get it. Remember the 24 hours of praise Trump got after bombing Syria? Suddenly all his faults were forgiven -- and if he'd kept bombing they'd have dropped the Russia stories.

We CAN defeat Trumpism with honest debate but so-called Democrats aren't willing to fight. They care less about the institutions and country than they do about protecting their own cushy status quo.

The establishment politicians and ideological neoliberals are our most imminent problem. Once they're gone and we engage Trump on his policies -- we'll win.

The new reality is that progressives are not standing down this time. Will we operate from within the DP -- or do we need a new party?
 
 
0 # futhark 2017-08-13 11:04
I think that the Constitution of the United States is a far more revered document than Germany's inter-war Weimar constitution ever was. The Weimar constitution was never considered a National Treasure and fidelity to it was considered a matter of convenience and expediency more than of national identity and affirmation.

I know there are people who think the Constitution to be an impediment to political action, but don't think most Americans would be happy to have it so openly defied.

Even the resident at 879 Ludwig Avenue, Santa Rosa, California has been flying the American flag above the Confederate Battle Flag on the flagpole in front of the house recently after having the Confederate flag on top for several months. Or maybe that person doesn't think there is an appreciable difference as long as Mr. Trump is in the White House...
 
 
+2 # ericlipps 2017-08-11 11:29
We can only hope. Do you really think this president cares what the Constitution says? Or this Congress, for that matter?
 
 
+4 # sbessho 2017-08-11 14:33
The truth is that Trump is totally incompetent. Any responsible government employee or elected official is doing his or her duty to try to get him out of office as soon as possible. It is not a conspiracy; it is decency.
 
 
+4 # lfeuille 2017-08-11 18:02
I've no doubt that half of Republicans would be fine with postponing the election, but they are not half of the country. There are more independents than Republicans. There are more Democrats than Republicans. I'm not sure exactly what share "half of republicans" have of the entire population, but I would guess it is way less than 20%. If Trump tries to do this I would predict he would be assassinated.
 
 
+7 # librarian1984 2017-08-12 09:06
TPTB don't want this, not when they've gone to all the trouble of rigging the elections so thoroughly, and politicians would have qualms about the regularity of their paychecks.

The illusion of democracy is central to maintaining the status quo -- which the 'elite' like just fine.
 

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